The word ‘feminist’ is arguably a counterproductive term to bat around in debate because it means such different things to different people. For a little exercise, please define feminism, and say whether each of the following viewpoints is ‘feminist’ or not:
1) Gender should be an irrelevant curiosity in modern professional society, in the same way that blood type, eye and hair color, race, and other doubtlessly biological yet socially irrelevant characteristics are. Outside the bedroom, hospital, and romantic world, gender shouldn’t matter at all.
2) Men and women are inherently different, but are equal because they possess different but equally valuable attributes. There is a certain proper set of behaviors and characteristics for men and a certain different proper set of behaviors and characteristics for women, but these sets are equally valuable, so men and women should respect each other as different but equal.
3) Men have historically oppressed women, so it is only fair and right than men should suffer some minor level of oppression at society’s hands to set the ground back equally. A certain level of scapegoating and institutional discrimination against men in the modern world is tolerable in light of what has happened historically.
…and some less general viewpoints:
a) Men are physically superior to women, so women should receive lighter sentences and more lenience in violent crimes than men, and we should be more concerned with protecting women from rape and assault than men.
b) Scholarships that discriminate against men, and ‘affirmative action’ in academia and industry in general, are acceptable for historical reasons.
c) The Selective Service, which requires men and not women to register from the draft, should remain in place.
d) Women are superior to men in raising children, so this should be taken into consideration in marital custody disputes, and women who rely on men to support them while they raise children should be admired.
e) Stay-at-home dads should be admired.
f) The oppression of homosexuals and/or homosexuality is a bad thing.
g) Rape is not broadly enough defined; if a couple has sex and one partner regrets it and feels pressured, even if there is no violence, threat of violence, or blackmail, the reluctant partner has been ‘raped.’
h) Only men can rape, and/or only women can be raped.
3
a, b, c, d, g, h
April 12th, 2010 at 2:35 am
1, No
2, No
3, Yes
a, 2nd half yes, 1st half no
b, yes
c, yes
d, yes
e, neutral
f, isn’t that viewd the same by everyone?
g, yes
h, Thats just stupid..
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April 12th, 2010 at 3:15 am
The only statement made here to which I can totally agree with is 2. We are inherently different, but we each contribute- in our own way.
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April 12th, 2010 at 3:33 am
o i get it I should be oppressed cause people a long time ago who i dont know personally oppressed women that makes a whole lot of sense. How is it equal to oppress anyone. your mentality is that of a child. And how are you fixing anything when you are the ones oppressing men. gee i wonder how black men will take being oppressed by a bunch of white women i think they will understand lol
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April 12th, 2010 at 4:13 am
I don’t know but I laugh whenever i hear the word feminism. Wanna hear a joke? women’s rights. haha just kidding
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April 12th, 2010 at 4:35 am
To my mind, feminism is just another name for sexism.
It’s PEOPLE’s rights that matter, not "women’s rights" or "men’s rights".
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April 12th, 2010 at 4:51 am
Feminism is the belief that all humans are equal in worth, and worthy of equal rights, equal consideration, and equal opportunity.
1) Agree. Qualifications, experience, education, etc should be the only considerations in most workplaces.
2) agree
3) No. What we need to move toward is a society were NO ONE is oppressed, and people are judged by the content of their character, not their gender, skin color, etc
a) No. Wrong is wrong, your gender, skin color, etc, does not factor into it.
b) Obviously, at this point, affirmative action in the college setting and in industry is no longer necessary. Of course, schools and companies (in the US at least) are not required to do so, anyway, they are put in place at the discretion of the college or company. The same is true for scholarships.
c) No one should have to register, but if men have to, so should women. This is NOW’s stance, as well. http://www.now.org/issues/military/policies/draft2.html
d) No. Women are not superior to men in raising children. The only thing that should be considered is who was the primary care giver before the divorce, and the wishes of both parents as well as children, if the children are old enough.
e) Yes, they should.
f) Yes, it is. They deserve the exact same human rights as everyone else. That INCLUDES the ability to marry exactly as heterosexuals do.
g) Regretting sex does not constitute rape in any way. Not taking no for an answer, IS rape. If the person says "no," stop.
h) Women can, and do, rape, and men can be, and are, raped.
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April 12th, 2010 at 5:13 am
feminism IS sexism with a slightly different arrangement of letters ; THEY ARE ONE & THE SAME..
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April 12th, 2010 at 5:36 am
It’s wrong to think that everyone decides for themselves what words mean. Feminism is defined in dictionaries — and it’s NOT about hting men.
As for the specifics of how I interpret feminism (that both sexes are human and deserve human rights and equal opportunities):
Uh, dunno what the word ‘curiosity’ is doing there, but on the job sex is irrelevant (unless you’re a professional sperm donor, I suppose). Socially, sex may be relevant, depending on the context.
It’s simply untrue that there are ANY traits or abilities (except directly related to making babies) that are universal in one sex, and absent in the other. People vary. We are not two distinct kinds of things, but are all human.
Uh, no, oppression is wrong.
"physically superior"?????? WTF? That’s obviously absurd. Although ON AVERAGE, men are physically stronger (in the sense of being able to lift heavier stuff more easily), it’s simply untrue to say ALL men are stronger than ALL women. That’s not at all about superiority, as there’s more to us than ability to lift things — pain tolerance, liability to disease, to name just two aspect of "superiority." That has nothing at all to do with sentencing criminals, or with protecting all innocent people from criminals.
No one should be required to sign up for the Selective Service. Perpetrating a wrong on one hlf of the population is not corrected by perpetuating it on all.
It’s untrue that ALL women are superior to ALL men in raising children. The most fit parent should get primary custody; when a couple can afford for one to not work to care for the young, and decide to do so, that’s their right. People’s choices in this matter should be respected. People who do aaa good job of rearing their young are to be admired.
Oppression is wrong. Always. (I don’t get the connection to feminism, however.)
Rape is against one’s will. If one partner regrets it later, that’s not rape.
h is clearly false. There aer many cases of women raping, and of men being raped.
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April 12th, 2010 at 6:10 am
"Feminism is the belief in legal, political and social equality for women; a doctrine that advocates equal rights for women; the belief in women’s equality to men; the theory or movement which argues that legal and social restrictions on females must be removed in order to bring about such equality."
This is why I’m not a feminist — not because I disagree with women’s rights, but because I don’t believe that women’s rights need to be advocated separately to those of men and children. Women are no longer unequal, and so we don’t need a movement just for us. I believe in gender equality, rather than the equality *of women to men*. Also, the definition rests on your interpretation of equality — different people have different ideas on what equality means, and how to achieve it. I tend to disagree with feminists on what constitutes equality — neutralising gender differences vs. seeing men and women as being of equal worth despite their accepted differences.
1) Feminist view, which I disagree with. Men and women are not the same, we have different skills and natural roles. Our gender is an important part of our identity.
2) This is the view I take, and how I see equality. Most feminists I’ve talked to disagree with it, so I’d say it’s non-feminist.
3) Radical feminist view.
a) This seems to have mixed support from different types of feminists — equity or liberal feminists are usually against this idea, yet most of the feminists in power (like Harriet Harman) agree with it.
b) Again, mixed. Depends on the type of feminist. I would say most politically active feminists support this, since affirmative action is widespread.
c) Non-feminist. Most feminists believe that either men and women should both have to register for the draft, or the draft shouldn’t exist for anyone.
d) Non-feminist, especially the bit about admiring women who rely on men to support them financially whilst they stay at home. Feminists usually criticise this choice.
e) Feminist. But I think most non-feminists agree with this too.
f) Feminist. The LGBT rights movement has been connected to the women’s rights movement. Although, again, I think most people support gay rights and believe oppression is a bad thing.
g) Feminist.
h) Depends on the individual. I’ve heard this view expressed by feminists and non-feminists, in varying degrees.
Just my thoughts on it!
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April 12th, 2010 at 6:30 am
Thanks for trying to better understand feminsim: good question! I think that defn #1 is what best describes feminsim, or what feminsim should be if its not. That defn is exactly what i believe!!!. Defn. #2 is a little problematic because it insinuates that men and women have set roles. I realize that there are some differences between men, but it doesnt mean that women have to be stay at home mums because they are inherently ‘better ‘ at it – actually men and women are equally nuturing. Defn 3 – i do not agree with that one!!! NO ONE should be oppressed! But its nice when men realize that women have suffered since, well the beging of time, up intill about 50 years ago, from oppression. But its mostly over now so its silly and unfair to hold it over mens heads now.
as for the other viewpoints:
A) Wrong – this should not be happening as it its sexist.
B)I have mixed feeligs on this because im sure there are some companies who will not hire ppl based on thier race or whatever but on the other hand it sometimes seems unfair to everyone else. Also, if you read about history, untill very recently, history was written from the point of view of rich, white, anglosaxon men. Marginilized ppl, which sometimes includes women depending on the historical period, are often left out or only spoken about from the view point of rich white men.
C)Selective service should not remain in place – men AND women should have to fight although in theory, i am against drafts in general
D)Uh no, the person who is deemed, by the judge, to be the more capeable parrent should win custody
E)yes!! those men are getting past the limits of gender roles! Men are just as nuruting and capeable as women
F) Absolutely yes!! I live in Canada and, praise the lord, in Ontario, they can get maried! love is love, straight or gay!
G)IDK i dont really know much about this subject
H) ofcourse men can get raped by a woman, its just less comon because men are generally physically stronger and more able to overpower a woman who is trying to rape them
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thanks for posting this – i think this is the only realy productive question that has ever been asked on here!! Gender should be irrelevant – thats MY feminsim!
April 12th, 2010 at 6:53 am
1. This is closest to the literal definition of feminism.
2. That’s "difference feminism," which I’m not interested in.
3. That’s just hypocrisy disguised as feminism.
a) Not feminism.
b) Not feminism.
c) Not feminism.
d) Not feminism.
e) Feminism.
f) Feminism.
g) Could be feminism depending on the situation.
h) Not feminism. (And not true.)
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April 12th, 2010 at 7:15 am
3
a, b, c, d, g, h
References :
http://www.freewebs.com/feminism-evaluated/
http://www.fatherland.info/docs/if-men-have-all-the-power.pdf
http://www.ukmm.org.uk/issues/suppression/nl.htm